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	<title>Real-Time Physics Simulation Forum</title>
	
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	<updated>2012-03-14T17:06:30+00:00</updated>

	<author><name><![CDATA[Real-Time Physics Simulation Forum]]></name></author>
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[bone]]></name></author>
		<updated>2012-03-14T17:06:30+00:00</updated>

		<published>2012-03-14T17:06:30+00:00</published>
		<id>https://pybullet.org/Bullet/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=27335#p27335</id>
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		<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: External force integration]]></title>

		
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I think your explicit scheme is supposed to be using f_n, not f_n-1.  So using an external force is the same as an explicit scheme.  But this might be alright if the external force isn't very high-frequency.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="https://pybullet.org/Bullet/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=1626">bone</a> — Wed Mar 14, 2012 5:06 pm</p><hr />
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		<entry>
		<author><name><![CDATA[arennuit]]></name></author>
		<updated>2012-03-14T14:41:18+00:00</updated>

		<published>2012-03-14T14:41:18+00:00</published>
		<id>https://pybullet.org/Bullet/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=27332#p27332</id>
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		<title type="html"><![CDATA[External force integration]]></title>

		
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Hi,<br><br>I am currently investigating numerical integration applied to physics simulation and I have a question regarding the implicit integration of external forces.<br><br>My system is a simple particle. Depending on whether my integration scheme is explicit or implicit, my equation will involve <strong class="text-strong">f_n-1</strong>, the force at the previous step (for explicit integration), or <strong class="text-strong">f_n+1</strong>, the force at the next step (for implicit integration), hence we can write:<br><br>explicit: <strong class="text-strong">x_n+1 = 2x_n - x_n-1 + f_n-1 / m * dt^2</strong><br>implicit: <strong class="text-strong">x_n+1 = 2x_n - x_n-1 + f_n+1 / m * dt^2</strong><br><br>If the particle is tied to a linear damped spring then you can express force <strong class="text-strong">f</strong> with respect to <strong class="text-strong">x</strong>, and you can solve for <strong class="text-strong">x_n+1</strong> (of course, the exact expression of force <strong class="text-strong">f(x, v)</strong> depends on the chosen integration scheme). This is all fine to me.<br><br>Now imagine you do not know your particle is tied to a damped spring and the only thing you have is an external force.<br><br><span style="text-decoration:underline">So my preliminary question is :</span> in case you use an external force you are no longer able to express <strong class="text-strong">f_n+1</strong> but can only know about <strong class="text-strong">f_n</strong>, is that right?<br><br><span style="text-decoration:underline">And my main question is:</span> when you use an external force in an implicit integration scheme, as you no longer use <strong class="text-strong">f_n+1</strong> but <strong class="text-strong">f_n</strong>, do you still benefit out of the full power of implicit integration? As you use neither<strong class="text-strong"> f_n+1</strong>, nor <strong class="text-strong">f_n-1</strong> but <strong class="text-strong">f_n</strong>, do you get something not as bad as explicit integration but not as good as implicit?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Antoine.<p>Statistics: Posted by <a href="https://pybullet.org/Bullet/phpBB3/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=9175">arennuit</a> — Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:41 pm</p><hr />
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